You will find the remainder of this interview on 3 tapes found here.

When did you start studying Karate?

Formally, I began at 16 years old.

Why did you start studying?

My father loved Karate very much. He began learning Karate when he was quite young. However, I don't believe he took a formal lesson. As a youngster, I always watched him train on the makiwara.

Was your first teacher Higa Sensei or Miyagi Sensei?

I studied with Higa Sensei first.

Why did you begin studying with him?

Because his dojo was very near to my home. It took about 10 minutes to reach on foot. At that time, his dojo had just opened. When I enrolled in his dojo, I had then only 2 senior students.

So it was very newly opened?

Yes, my seniors then were Mr. Yamahiro and Mr. Takamine. Higa sensei taught them privately while he was a police man stationed in the Takameda section of Ittoman City, but Higa sensei retired from the police force and opened his own dojo with Mr. Yamashiro who was then his senior student. Proved to be quite helpful in openeing the dojo, now mr yamashiro has retired from karate, and mr takamine is the pres. of the org. that Higa sensei had founded

Is that sensei takamine Shimaboroku?

Yes, he is the president, but not an active karate teacher.

So I assume you pracaticed with mr takamine and mr. yamashiro?

of course, they were my seniors

Was higa sensei's dojo the first branch dojo of miyagi sensei?

Yes, it was the first and only branch dojo of miyagi sensei. but higa sensei taught miyagi sensei's goju-ryu in ittoman city as mr miyagi sensei's representative until he died.

Now I would like to ask about master Miyagi.

after i joined the dojo of higa sensei, i also studied with miyagi sensei.

So you learned from 2 masters. What kind of teacher was miyagi sensei?

Well, he was, let's say, a typical ancient okinawan bushi. He was very, very, very strict, but he was an incredibly honest man.

Was he demanding of himself?

Yes, he was, quite so.

And demanding of his students?

Yes, of course.

So you know miyagi sensei, not only as a karate teacher, but also on a personal level?

Yes, he didn't go out often to visit anyone's home. He really didn't like to. I think he was quite different in that sense from Higa sensei, who always visited his friends to chat. I suppose miyagi sensei often came to my home because he was a good friend of my father. I don't think he visited any other student's house at that time. I don't think he would have come as often if my father was not living with us.

You told me before that he often arrived at your home around noon and did not leave until well after midnight.

Ms. Toguchi: Yes, he came to our home around that time and stayed for quite some time. He like to talk with my father-in-law and my husband. Many times, the second son of Miyagi sensei would come to pick him up around midnight. and miyagi sensei often sent him home alone because the three of them were involved in a lively conversation. After his son would leave, the conversation would continue for quite some time. When miyagi sensei finally left, my husband always accompanied him to his house.

It was then that you were challenged?

No, it was not only then, I was always challenged when I was in the streets.
Ms Toguchi: Yes, he was always sought after.

I See. Bye the way, how did miyagi sensei teach karate?

Well, he was a very hard and strict teacher on techniques. Until you became proficient in one technique, he would never teach you more. Nowadays, you learn the sequence of the entire kata right away, but miyagi sensei taught it little bye little according to our progress.

We have a saying of "seven sanchin" or "three years sanchin". Did he really teach Sanchin for such a long time?

No he did not.

Is it just a saying?

Yes, he emphasized the importance of Sanchin, and taught it for a long period, but he did not teach only sanchin for 3 years.

Did he charge tuition?

Miyagi Sensei did not charge tuition, however, we would give him gifts at new year and "oban" (sp?) time.

As a sign of thanks?

Yes, however, Higa sensei charged tuition when he opened his dojo. that was a big difference between miyagi sensei and higa sensei. Miyagi sensei did not like the idea of taking money for teaching karate. He was very old type of bushi.

Miyagi sensei is famous for his strength. I heard many stories of his incredible powers, for example, it was said he could rip a chunk of raw beef off with his fingers, and peel a man's forearm skin off by grabbing him after being attacked. Have you heard stories like this?

I've heard these stories as well, but I don't know if they're true or not. Many said his nickname was Nikoteri Magusku, Nikoteri means "to rip meat off", and Magusku is Miyagi's name in the Okinawan dialect. I suppose, in order to emphasize how strong miyagi sensei was, these stories were circulated. It is said that he had thrusted his fingers into a bull's chest and ripped out flesh, but I believe it was yet, just like his nick name Nikoteri Magusku, just a nickname (?).

BTW, I have met many karate teachers if anyone who ever knew or studied with miyagi sensei treated (?) him as a great karate master. I would like to know your opinion.

Well, first of all, Higaonna sensei has several good disciples. miyagi sensei, however, was the only disciple who studied all the techniques and theories of Naha-Te from Higaonna sensei. Miyagi sensei even offered housing to his teacher in order to study everything. Higaonna had to offer much and miyagi sensei wanted to study everything possible. Miyagi sensei was the only one to study his teacher's art completely. Miyagi sensei was very very wealthy. Miyagi sensei was adopted as a child by a relative. His foster parents were extremely wealthy. They owned a lot of property in Naha City and several other places. Miyagi sensei inherited the entire fortune. That is why he did not need to get a normal type of job for a living. He could just enjoy study, practice and teach karate. It is said he ate himself out of house and home by just doing karate. Because of his fortune, he could offer Higaonna sensei housing and pay. Higaonna sensei was the chief instructor at the police academy and after his death, Miyagi Sensei took over that position.

What was Miyagi Sensei's greatest contribution?

Besides what I've already described, Miyagi sensei had created a new type of karate instructional method, by rearranging somewhat the karate he learned from Higaonna Sensei. The system included what we practice now in Shorei-kan, which includes warming-up exercises, Daruma Taiso, supplementary exercises, and two-man exercises: bunkai kumite and kiso kumite, ??? exercises and so on. His second major contribution was develop his karate to a modern-day physical education program. Thirdly, he was the one, really, to have karate recognized as an official Japanese martial art. This recognition was by the Butokukai. This recognition is comparable to the present-day acceptance of karate in the Olympics. Until Miyagi Sensei died, karate was... excuse me... until Miyagi Sensei did this, karate was not recognized at all. This was a great contribution to karate. About 1932 or 1933, Funakoshi Sensei was in Tokyo and Mabuni Sensei in Osaka with active dojos, but they did not pull (?) karate into the Butokukai. It was not until Miyagi Sensei came that the Butokukai recognized karate. Only after this recognition was karate finally taught in the universities.

He was a pioneer of karate, wasn't he?

Yes, for this contribution he was awarded the title of "Kyoshi" by the Butokukai. He was the first karate man ever to receive this title. Obviously, he was an exceptional karate master.

Nobody else promoted karate in this way?

No, as I said before, both Funakoshi Sensei and Mabuni Sensei were there, but they did not promote karate. Only Miyagi Sensei did this. It was not until Miyagi Sensei did this that karate was known to the public in mainland Japan. Although there were active dojos, it was not really known well by the general public. It was kept somewhat hidden. After this introduction, the founder of Judo, Sensei Jigoro Kano, came to study with Miyagi Sensei as well. Yes, Jigoro Kano made the exercise called Ko Bo Taiso.

Is that exercise based on Karate techniques taught by Miyagi Sensei?

Yes, Kano Sensei returned to Tokyo after studying with Miyagi Sensei and made this exercise, Ko Bo Taiso. Ko, meaning offense and Bo, meaning defence. This exercise that Jigoro Kano created from his studies with Miyagi Sensei was then added, officially, to the Judo curriculum.

There were several disciples of Higaonna Sensei besides Miyagi Sensei. Could you tell me who they were?

Well, of Higaonna's students, naturally there were many, but the more popular students, or well known, were people such as Seiko Higa, who was my first teacher, as I mentioned before. Also, Kaiso Habura (sp?) and Guskuma Kuuke (sp?), however, it seems really that only Miyagi Sensei was the only one to study everything. This enabled Miyagi Sensei to further develop karate. It was really because he could do it for his life's work, and devote all his time to it and he was able to further develop karate. I believe you must devote your life to do something really well.

What about kata Sanseiru and Kiyoda Sensei? I understand that the Sanseiru of Kiyoda Sensei is different from Miyagi Sensei?

Yes, that's correct. They were different. This was because Higaonna Sensei's instructional method worked that way. Higaonna Sensei would choose one student and make him an expert in one kata, such as Sanseiru. As you know, it takes many many years to perfect one kata.

Higaonna Sensei did not teach all the kata to any student but Miyagi Sensei?

That's correct. It would be almost impossible.